-A modern conversation in philosophy
Gtalk, January 5, 11pm
Me: "And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more.
People talking without speaking,
People hearing without listening,
People writing songs that voices never share
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence."
we live in a world where real communication is rare
Nee: that's funny
we're not communicating "real" right now either
Me: we are
it’s not about the tools used for communication
but about the content
Nee: nooo...
the content won’t be as real as it would be if it was person to person
Me: maybe u r right
maybe the content can become better if we were focused on only one thing
instead of like now, listening to music, chatting and so on
Nee: exactly.
(of course I’m right.)
(I’m not doing the discussion correctly am i?)
Me: haha xD
yes you are?
Nee: oh okay :D
Me: why? :P
Nee: so i can say I’m right
even if I’m not?
hahah
Me: haha sure, if u believe it :P
Nee: yayy!
Me: but have to be open minded, to prove or disprove your point, and u can’t force your point upon others
Nee: lol
I know, but isn’t it more fun to force your points?
haha
Me: xD
u funny :P
so what happens in a world where communication isn’t important
filled up with crappy comments on the net
with no real importance
what happens to the ppl in a world like that?
what happens to relations?
Nee: it would make whining a lot harder
Me: haha
yep I guess
Nee: then people won’t have a true sense of individuality
cause everyone would be "anonymous"
huwaw.
that would be sad
Me: yeah, and individuality seems to be something very important to human
to be able to say that we are important and different
don’t u think?
I’d like to think that I’m different from anyone else
or I see no point in going on
Nee: yep
Me: what do u think? u like to be different, not like anyone else?
Nee: erm.. different can mean lots of things
Me: yeah?
Nee: I wouldn’t want to be so different that I wouldn’t be able to relate to anyone
Me: that’s true...
I have [#] to relate to
Nee: being different and being isolated is... different! lol
Me: yeah
haha
so we could say that ppl want to be different, but still want ppl to be like them?
Nee: yeah so. its like a matter of being different.. with a few other people too
Me: yeah
that’s another thing, ppl needs to feel that they are a part of something bigger, a community, a religion
"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent."
But sometimes we want to be an island? just to show that we are not dependent on
anyone/anything else
right?
but I think we are, we are flock animals, we need each other
and in a world where everyone is listening to their iPod
that’s not as easy
so we need other ways
Nee: and that’s where communication comes in again... right?
Me: yeah, so what ways do we have to be able to relate to each other, where all "normal" talking seems to be rare
Nee: wow. you're really making me think here
that doesn’t happen often >.<
Me: hahaha xD
well, I think that things like.. YouTube, blogs and so on are ways for us to become individual, to show "this is me" in a anonymous world where that’s not always easy
but i also see that those blogs are filled up with "unimportant" communication
about things, instead of minds
Nee: but blogs aren’t really communication to others
they're more of self release
to talk about things that you may not be able to talk about to anyone for the moment
Me: true.. monologues
so instead you talk to everyone about it?
Nee: could be
or it could be nobody
Me: if you are anonymous that works, but if you are, then how personal is it really?
Nee: blogging could be just some form of release
Me: so u don’t think it has any to do with our will to feel individual?
Nee: it could vary with people
Me: yes true..
so what will happen to the world, how will ppl get to become individual.. or wont we? maybe we just accept the fact we cant anymore..
I wouldn’t like that
what’s the reason of existing if someone else can do the same work as good as we can?
Nee: if everyone in this world is their own individual, the whole concept wouldn’t seem as appealing as it would be
because what’s the point in trying if everyone's also different and "their own"? you won’t be that much recognized or differed either
Me: if everyone is different, then no one is?
Nee: exactly!
:D
Me: so that brings us back to the point, to be different together with other ppl
Nee: yep yep
its like a circle, everything's connected. its not like a rectangle, a rectangle has bumps and little corners. its not FLOWING. (hahahahahahahhhahahahhaahahahahaha sorry. that is from a movie. im not drunk in any way)
Me: hahahahaha
I'm not sure about that xD
so what becomes the problem if we does not have communication, wont everything we are talking about become unimportant? do we even need to talk about important things in our world?
[Inviting “Billy”, “Billy” is a girl]
Me: okay we’ve been talking about communication, how it seems to become rare in our world with relevant communication
how we keep talking about unimportant things
and so the last thing we threw out there was "so what becomes the problem if we does not have communication, wont everything we are talking about become unimportant? do we even need to talk about important things in our world?"
through isolation, communication is lacking, and we have already established that communication is important. and we see this kind of things every day, people are quiet and when talking, it is not about relevant things; "people talking without speaking" Paul Simon wrote, and I think this is part of the problem, we isolate ourselves but without communication we cannot feel in what ways we are different from someone else and in what ways we are similar, Humankind have always been looking for ways to feel important; religion, fame, bizarre opinions, but with a lack of communication, this becomes so much harder.
Billy: well 'people talking without speaking, and people hearing without listening actually accounts for something else (or so I find)
the sense of we communicate - junk
we say stuff that no one cares about and nobody wants to know
so we hear
but we don't actually listen to what is being said
that is communication also?
it could be
Me: yes, so we communicate, in order to show on who we are, but what we say and hear isn’t relevant
Billy: because there is still talking and hearing going on
so it should be communication
relevant communication - no
stuff that is needed - no
stuff that is important – no
Me: there you go, so what happens with all relevant things we could be saying instead, it is drowning in the irrelevant things
Billy: the first thing on the newspaper is something distraught about wars and waste but what do we care about that anymore? we just flick to the comics and read it or the TV page to see what good shows are on the telly
we don't care enough anymore
we have become embedded into the mundane
not cared of what needs to be care about
Me: and I think this is what have happened, how our way to isolate ourselves, and not put value in information, have began to hurt us and our way to think
Billy: haha
because we communicate - but do we really?
we don't because we are not expressing what really needs to be expressed
Me: yes, so is this really harmful for our community?
Billy: it is
Me: how?
Billy: because we start to embed ourselves into things that are irrelevant unnecessary
things that are not needed and we block out things that really matter
like for example
Britney Spears
why on earth do we care about her?
I don't know her ,
you don't know her
the whole world is embedded into watching her life fall to pieces
and being upset over it
crying when she cries
laughing when she laughs
She hasn't even met us
know that we exist
yet we still care over that
Brad Pitt
"I love Brad Pitt"
but HE DOESN’T EVEN KNOW I’M ALIVE
see, doesn't that irk u?
Me: I totally agree, and I think this is one of the greatest problems our society has. Now, what can we do to prevent to become part of it ourselves?
Billy: think outside the box :D
create our own social culture which we can dwell in and learn to love like Morrie and his own culture
what we create for ourselves is better than the “dosh” the world dishes out on our plate
Me: but our society doesn’t really accept if we do like Morrie, we won’t be able to survive, because all what our society is built on; money and success, goes against communication and love, and cannot be combined
Billy: why do you care about society?
why do you want to dwell upon what people think of you
when you don't know how you think of yourself
Me: because we live in it, and cannot survive in it if we don’t follow it
because it cannot be combined with our society of today. do you mean that we should totally ignore our society and create our own, built on all that we believe in, and through that have a society in which we can be happy, but not be accepted in the major society? Maybe that’s the only way
Billy: yes
:)
why do you care about what the major society is doing
money, economy all that jazz
it makes no one happy
everyone is busy thinking about how rich they want to get
and who Britney is going to marry next
why do you even care
Me: but without money, we cannot survive
Billy: I’m not saying that we should totally take ourselves away from money
because we need it to buy stuff -
but
don't dwell on it
why want to become rich
why want stuff that society is making just so that they can become rich
they don't care for you they just want you to buy their junk
Me: if we want to have time for each other, we need money for living, but to get money, we need to work, and thus not have time for each other. do u see what I mean?
Billy: why can't you have time for each other if you work?
my daddy works and he makes time for me
Me: but it is not possible to the same extent
Billy: same extent meaning?
Me: meaning we can’t take all time we want for others, because there are things we need to do to live on
Billy: separation makes the heart grow fonder,
if we do have time - I mean like
24 /7 with someone
wouldn't you get sick of them?
think
about it
if you have a song played and stuck in your head
you get sick of it
Me: but we don’t need to spend 24/7 with only one person
we have many friends
Billy: well
Nee: I disagree
if you truly loved someone, you'd want to spend all your time with them
you wouldn’t get sick of them
Me: and the rest of the time might be needed for us to get to understand ourselves?
Billy: think society - "I love you, marry me" - "I hate you, lets divorce"
Me: another problem, our will to reach perfect life
even though that might not be possible
Billy: :) perfection isn't possible
only God is perfect
the perfect live
etc etc
but what is perfection for you?
TOK rule can't remember what
"what you see isn't what I see"
Me: still, we are trying to reach perfection
Billy: because isn't that human nature
Nee: it is also human nature to sleep. so I’m going to go sleep :)
Me: HAHAHA
Nee: good night you guys!
Me: alright, Nee, night!
Billy: haha
so u see
human nature plays a big rule in our life
I think I need bed to
I’ll see you in the morning
night - God bless
:)
Me: night Billy :)
----
[#], referring to a person
Morrie, referring to the professor in the book Tuesdays With Morrie by Mitch Albom
